Phrog Chorus: An interview with Metaphrog (2/2)

In part two of Ninth Art's interview with John Chalmers and Sandra Marrs - known collectively as Metaphrog - the team tells us about the LOUIS books, the Glasgow scene and the struggle to promote and distribute their works.
15 October 2001

LOUIS: RED LETTER DAY has the appearance and pace of a children's book, yet there are complex themes underlying it. It reflects real world lives; the simplified boxes people live in, and the mundane jobs they have.

Sandra Marrs feels children's books shouldn't be just entertainment, because "there's little to be gained from reading an empty story, less by making one."

"The point is to make something meaningful as well as entertaining," she says. "It would be patronising to children's abilities and intellect to set a rigidly defined world for them, and it's important that kids have an awareness of what's going on around them - without spoiling it for them, of course! - especially when they are one of the main victims of consumerism. It was also a challenge for us to try and do something complex and yet simple, that everyone could enjoy. We weren't sure of what the outcome would be."

Responses they've had from readers of all ages have been positive. Sandra says the smaller kids completely identified with Louis, "which was a great joy to witness". Younger adolescents seemed to see it more as a challenge, like they have to decode the story. And parents have talked of enjoying the story themselves, as well as the experience of sharing it with their kids.

Their feedback suggests that LOUIS seems to have reached an audience that doesn't normally read comics. According to John Chalmers, many parents have bought the book for children named Louis. "It's fantastic that comics gain new readers, especially young readers. Ours, obviously, isn't some mass marketed phenomena, so I think it can become seen as something special for people. It's touching to be told that people feel strongly about your work."

John and Sandra "test drove" the book on a group of children, some of whom responded on a very visceral, emotional level. "We're still trying to take on board the response to LOUIS - RED LETTER DAY. We've received letters at regular intervals from people, all over the world, who have really enjoyed the book or been made really miserable by it!"

LYING TO CLIVE is a sequel to RED LETTER DAY, but Sandra adds, "It's self-contained, so you don't have to have read the first one to follow it. In RED LETTER DAY, we wanted to talk about our modern western society and the way it alienates us, or imprisons us. LYING TO CLIVE is more an observation - through a journey - of social inequalities and discriminations against cultures."

If RED LETTER DAY was about how people fit into institutions such as the workplace, LYING TO CLIVE is about how society imposes other institutions on people who will not fit. There are parallels with psychiatric institutions and behaviour modification, but once again these themes are framed in a simple storytelling style that makes it accessible to all ages.

John expands on the underlying themes, "It isn't easy to make value judgements of one's own work. It's certainly a lot less sad and melancholy in tone, but hopefully not less charming, than the first book. It's an attempt to explore the way our existence is shaped by metaphors. It does take the form of a journey, through which ideas about language are dealt with along with socio-economic issues. There is less of a trouble-in-toytown feel, it's probably more manic and acerbic."

While Sandra is the artist in the team, John might be described as the scientist - he has qualifications in physics, and his stories certainly have a crystalline structure. With John the scientist's words and Sandra the artist's pictures, there might have been a sense of conflict between the two philosophies. Sandra feels not. "There's no ego quarrels involved! We're always on the same wavelength. Our sensibilities are quite similar, and we feel strongly about the same things."

John sees more similarities than conflicts between science and art. "In many ways, pure maths is abstract, beautiful and artistic and it would be hard to argue that engineering doesn't encompass skills in invention, design and realisation, but the conventional dichotomy or schism between art and science hasn't been an issue with us." However, he acknowledges that science "has become less easy to comprehend, more esoteric, with rapid, radical advances in manifold areas, niches or specialist disciplines." John observes, "There's more corporate control and influence exercised over research: science for commercial gain or profit is inhumane, but blaming the scientists is overly simplistic, it's a complex web.

"The military-industrial network is a product of the extreme capitalism of our times, in the Canetti sense, money is a crowd and thus goes to money... so there's always this economic imperative but it is terrible if that drive distorts the purpose of science or art". (Canetti's is the author of CROWDS AND POWER, a study of social disorder and mass movements.)

Sandra and John plan the stories together, agree on the main thread and themes, then John writes the story, Sandra comes up with the visuals, and they both add their own personal touches. Then they do the layouts together to make sure they both agree on the way the story is told. Sandra draws, inks and colours, then John letters. As with their work on STRANGE WEATHER LATELY, the process is one of constant collaboration. They wanted to use the name Metaphrog to produce work as a genderless, egoless entity.

Asked about people who might share the Metaphrog ethos, John says, "Anyone that is doing something because they feel they have to. People who don't do things for the money but concern themselves with human interaction and human needs. Anyone into DIY in that sense is a kindred spirit, whether they're doing art or publishing or running a shop or supplying a service to people."

Among Glasgow-based cartoonists and comic creators, John highlights Frank Quitely, Grant Morrison, Marc Baines, and says there is plenty of promising small press stuff - "Too much again to mention."

"There's the underground oddness of the Northern Lights folk, there's the official SCCAM club for cartoonists and illustrators; in Edinburgh there's the excellent minicomics of Malcy Duff, but there's not really a Glasgow 'scene' as such. Hopefully there is an infrastructure of support."

"Worldwide, a growing number of people want to do something creative. Since the glut of new job opportunities are bureaucratic creations and jobs in fields offering little or no personal development, more people will seek out alternatives, rather than live a life off passive consumption. Watching other people do things is not as satisfying, generally, as doing something yourself," says John.

The Metaphrog team always tries to get its work to as many different outlets as it can. At first they approached the bookshops directly ("at least the ones we could reach"), but they now have a bookshop distributor in the UK and one in the US. John says most bookstores are happy to help, and they work together, doing workshops and promotion, but this is difficult to extend beyond their home area. However, the book has demonstrated its appeal in bookshops, and it seems to have the capacity to generate interest by word of mouth, and hence to grow organically, without mass-marketing.

"The signal to noise ratio is terrible nowadays, with every available atom advertising something," notes John. "The more something sells, the more it ... has to be sold, meaning, given prime shelf space or column inches or peak time or a chair in your unconscious."

Sandra adds, "Being a small press, any kind of outlet is beneficial, it's cumulative. In terms of comic shop distribution, the small outlets have the advantage of being sale or return, and therefore books are always available if someone wants to re-order, although you might not reach as many people as with a bigger distro. The way things are just now, it's very hard for smaller people to do anything, with big corporations making sure they're holding the fork. But it creates numerous small communities wanting to be able to express themselves their own way."

"The small presses have the same potential distributive scope as any publication," says John, "but the orientation of the market - and this applies to all media - favours those publishers in the majority. It's a statistical fact, not really a conscious decision on the part of the distributors. Most people in comics really care about the medium and want to see small presses survive, but it's hard to compete with television for peoples' attention, it isn't easy to analyse the merits of purely small press distros. They do extremely well, but are to a degree preaching to the converted.

"But the network continues to grow, and yes, there is an opportunity for more meaningful discourse with readers and the readers tend to take on a more active role, becoming mini-distros or reviewers, and disseminating information in an alternative manner to the mainstream media. People find it hard to listen if you tell them they are being provided with news and information that may be actually harmful to them, may be biased or may be false. That's understandable because it undermines their worldview and directly questions them in a way. "

He plainly sees Metaphrog as part of a broader network. "For a decade or so, altruistic prime movers like Paul Gravett (Cartoon Art Trust), Peter Pavement (Slab-O-Concrete, sadly now defunct), and Pete Ashton (Bug Powder), have been tirelessly doing all they can to provide a fertile growth space for comics. Without this kind of enthusiasm and example it's unlikely so much good stuff would surface. The presence of platforms, such as distributors and critical forums, allows discourse and encourages improvements to be made."

The couple have an eye on diverse means of promotion and distribution. Sandra notes a difference in styles among European comics, and a sad paucity of translations. She feels that libraries are definitely a channel to pursue. "They are a great way for people to try new things freely, but it's also hard to break into such institutions. The comic medium is not always regarded in the same way as other books, but there are some people definitely into developing graphic novel sections. To have a dynamic medium you need to work through as many cultural channels as possible."

John suggests another useful method is getting comics back into 'unexpected' places - i.e., getting comics to people who would not otherwise see them - is the internet. "The internet might be more significant for small press, cutting down on distribution costs and making people aware of the diversity that is available."

However, Sandra feels the internet is rather analogous to the real world; "If you're small in one, you're small in the other. It may be naive to think of a virtual world as the saviour. But it's just another medium, and therefore worth pursuing."

John agrees that it can help activism. "The internet facilitates virtually free communication and is an excellent tool for organising or representing certain things, but it is available to everyone. Although there are few differences between it and other digital media, one good thing is that it can be more readily used actively, rather than passively, which is excellent."

So, what next for Metaphrog?

"A new LOUIS story, on a new theme, which should be released next year," says John. "We also plan to work on more adult stories again, but it's still in its infancy."

Adrian Brown is a professional psychiatric nurse at a central London NHS substance misuse service.

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